The
eighth meeting of the Carroll Cave Conservancy convened at 1:05
PM at Truman Lake State Park Shelter House. The meeting was
called to order by Rick Hines. Jeff Page recorded the minutes.
Rick distributed a sign-up sheet to the group and asked each
participant to introduce themselves and briefly discuss their
interest in Carroll Cave. The attendees were as follows:
Wayne Burnett, Michelle and Bryon Carmoney, Bill Copeland,
Terry DeFraties, Robert and Gerry Gattenby, Marty Griffin,
Carolyn and Mike Hartley, Kay and Rick Hines, Lawrence Ireland,
Andy Isbell, Tom and Tina Lounsbury, Jeff Page, Cyndia Chesshir,
Dave Porter, Terry Sherman, Eddie Simmons, Kathy Sumner.
The meeting was led by Rick Hines and followed the discussion
outline that he distributed to the group.
1. Only 3 at last meeting-Rick reported that the last meeting
had only three people in attendance.
2. Treasures report
Rick cited the need to maintain a list of donors and send a
Thank you letter to each. Treasurer Wayne Burnett reported a
treasury balance of $785.92.
3. New since last meeting
a) No digging in sink since last December due to safety
concerns about the instability of the rock in the rooms opened
up at the bottom of the sinkhole.
b) We now have tax exempt status, 501(c)(3) and need to
establish a list of charter members to remain in compliance.
c) Rick distributed maps of the land over Carroll Cave, which
showed ownership of the various sections.
d) Have Lease from Greg Fry, owner of land above the cave.
e) Have Lease from Chris Danuser, owner of land above the
cave.
f) Have pinpointed a spot over the T-Junction
g) Have pinpointed a spot over DR1 105 feet to cave
h) Have pinpointed a spot over Convention Hall
50 feet to cave on Bill Fredrick property. Fredrick will let
us drill but does not want to sign lease. CCC must have legal
control (lease) of the property to maintain tax-exempt status.
i) Have pinpointed a spot over Convention Hall Passage meets
Thunder River 100 feet to cave on Chris Danuser property
j) A second 50-foot to cave spot exists between Convention
Hall and Thunder River that is probably on Danuser side of the
fence. We need to pinpoint the spot for possible drilling.
4. Other old Business
Rick mentioned that the first gathering of people who were
interested in opening a new entrance to Carroll was first held
on 11/18/95. That was a clean up of the sinkhole where we would
dig. The CCC was established 1/22/98. One participant expressed
interest in pursuing the sinkhole dig.
Rick discussed the "smell test" he was hoping to do
at the sinkhole to see if we could determine how close the dig
had come to accessible passage in the
cave.
5. What next? Without a lease from Mr. Fredrick, we should
not pursue
drilling on his land at this time, even though he is willing
to have us do
so. Rick suggests the next steps are:
a) Pinpoint 50-foot to cave spot on Danuser's side of fence.
b) Select site for shaft
c) Have Stamper drill 9" hole at the spot ($450 for 80'
or less)
d) Down hole video - drop video camera into the shaft
e) Determine driller and cost for 3-foot hole- a discussion
ensued regarding the option of dynamiting an entrance in the
shaft. Rick noted that while this was a less expensive option,
it would result in more labor intensive work removing the
blasted rock and would result in a rougher entrance than would
drilling. The group consensus was that drilling was more
desirable.
f) Raise $10,000 to $20,000
g) Drill access shaft.
6. Committees: With the anticipated opening of a new
entrance, it is time for CCC to form committees to handle the
associated responsibility. Meeting participants were asked to
volunteer for the following committees.
Membership, Chairman Bryon Carmoney, Member Andy Isbell
Categories for the committee's consideration
Sweat Equity (those who have devoted considerable time to the
project so far)
Landowners (who have granted us access to their property)
Minor (to be determined if minors can be members)
Organization (to be determined if grottos and other
organizations can be members)
Honorary (e.g. Bill Hays, Atty, who has done work for CCC pro
bono
New (committee determines membership requirements)
Current members are those with Sweat Equity, Landowners, and
lawyer (see type column on CCC participants list).
Dues (committee to determine dues for the various categories)
Access, Chairman, Eddie Simmons Members Tom Lounsbury, Dave
Porter, Mike Hartley, Gerry Gatenby
Committee will determine requirements for gaining access to
entrance, the limits on trip sizes and prioritize the types of
trips allowed. Gate security and hardware for the entrance are
additional issues.
Survey/Maps, Chairman, Tom Lounsbury
Landowner Relations, Chairman, Rick Hines
Meeting participants agree that no one other than the
chairman talks to the landowners about CCC business.
Drilling, Chairman, Eddie Simmons, member Bill Copeland
Responsible for seeking bids from qualified drillers.
Fund Raising, Chairman, Michelle Carmoney member Kathy Sumner
Bylaws, Chairman, Jeff Page member, Lawrence Ireland
Web Page, Web Master, Marty Griffin
7. Issues
Jeff Page submitted a list issues surrounding the opening of
a new entrance. Most of these issues had been covered in the
discussions on committees.
Additional issues discussed were awareness that there may be
media attention and relations with area residents.
Also discussed was an issue submitted by Kerry Rowland (not
present at the meeting), who had participated in the most recent
fieldwork. His was concerned that Convention Hall was not the
best place to dig due to the ceiling being relatively weak
sandstone and the possibility of entrants tracking mud from CH
to Thunder River thereby endangering cave fish and other
species. The points from the discussion that followed were that
we are limited to where we drill by the number of landowners who
will cooperate.
Finding another location where the depth was acceptable would
be very difficult. The mud could be dealt with by finding ways
to harden it as has been done in other caves. We should spend
whatever time is deemed necessary to prepare CH for traffic.
Most thought that a safe route through the sandstone breakdown
could be found or developed. The consensus was that we should
proceed with our next steps as outlined in section 5.
8. Other new business
One participant recalled that the cave might be listed on the
registry of National Historic Landmarks that could possibly be
an obstacle to the CCC efforts. He said he would look into it
and report.
9. Next meeting:
When 12/3/00
Where - to be determined.
This assumes that we have drilled a hole by then and need to
discuss costs and other considerations. If this has not happened
by 12/3, we may postpone the meeting until January.
10. Meeting adjourned